Another Kips problem....

Dodgy Kips motor? CDI? battery? diode? reg/rect? its all gobbledygook to me but some people understand it ask tham a question here
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carlsburg
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Another Kips problem....

Post by carlsburg » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:51 pm

Hi All,
I have power valve issues.... from reading other posts I think my CDi is U.S...
The other night I took my recently rebuilt KR-1s (see getting started in the projects section) out for a spin, half way to where I was going, I noticed the turn signal was not flashing???? I know you are thinking what has this got to do with my kips valve... well shortly after the bike stopped... GRRRRRRR. This took out the main fuse which caused it to stop. I found a crappy connection in the fuse box which has caused the rectifier to cook my battery, after a bit of fumbling at the road side I managed to get it going and got it home, I however noticed a lack of power at the top end..
When I got home I took a look and found the power valve motor was not doing the reset when the ignition was switched on.
so I have pulled it apart. the motor is a simple brushed dc motor and the position sensor on the bottom is a simple potentiometer. I have put 12 volts on the motor via the 2 pin plug and it spins both ways when you swap the polarity. The pot seems OK as well, smooth no glitches.
so I guess my question is has anyone got a CDi I can buy..... and is there anything else I can check?

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by JanBros » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:19 pm

I don't see how a blown fuse or crappy connection can cause your battery to overcook. normaly only to high voltages can cook the battery. I'd advice to check your regulator/rectifier to make sure that one is ok.

as for the KIPS motor : it's not a pot-meter as position sensor (how could it be ?), it's just 2 simple contacts : viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7690&hilit=how+to+set+up+F3+valves (my post just below the middle of the page)
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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by DougB » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:40 pm

Sounds like your Kips motor is ok, as it's controlled direct fromt the CDI unit I'd agree a new one sounds like the answer. I had troubles with mine when I first got the bike and found the same as you, CDI sends positive or negative power to the motor and uses the variable resistance from the pot to figure the motor position, I didn't come across any open/closed contacts, just the resistor.

One thing you can do, first remove the pot from the motor. Leave all the connectors attached to the loom, and find something you can turn the pot with manually. Switch the ignition on and leave it 10 seconds or so. Turn the pot by hand (doesn't matter if you turn it a full 360 or more) and see if the motor responds by moving at all. If it does, put it back together and see if works now. Don't know why that sometimes works but it seems to reset it.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by carlsburg » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:59 pm

Sorry JanBros Its a potentiometer (vairaible resistor) not a switch.

Image

Its getting a 5v signal from the cdi, to prove it is not that I am going to put another pot in the circuit,
its a pretty simple control as far as I can make out.
as far as cooking the battery, if there is a bad connection in the fuse box or plug leading to it, this causes the regulator to loose its reference voltage, i.e low volts into regulator = alternator field winding goes flat out putting 30v + into the battery.......= eggy smell.....

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by JanBros » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:37 am

about the potmeter : well, I didn't open the KIPS motor to find out how it works, so didn't know :oops:

about the fuse :
- if 30V would have been send to the batery, the CDI and everything else would have received that to and your CDI would have been burned/fried instantly. so that has not happened. Unless you are very very lucky and it only burned the KIPS-part of your CDI, but you would be the first I think.
- there are 2 "+" wires comming from the regulater : a white and a brown. the white goes to the battery over the fuse directly, the brown attaches to the "+" after the ignition switch.
if the fuse blows (and it's the only one connecting the battery to the system), the regulater can not send too high voltages to the battery, as at that point the battery is disconnected.
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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by maccas » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:17 am

I had the same problem.

My stator and reg/rec were both knackered. My battery got cooked along with most of the bulbs on the bike, finally the kips part of the cdi popped but the cdi still ran the bike ok.

I fitted a new stator and reg/rec and the bike is now charging as normal.

Dan

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by carlsburg » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:24 pm

So a quick update,
A massive thanks to Bernie for sorting me out a replacement CDi.
so with the replacement on the way, I thought I would have a look at my broken one, so I opened up the case to find this....................



Image


This is whats left of the driver IC that switches the motor polarity. It is a PNP + NPN Darlington H-bridge, I have carefully removed it from the PCB and cleaned up the pads.
Using the datasheet for the IC I could find the supply lines on pin 1 and 10, these seem to still be ok, also the pins that supply the motor (3 and 5) are ok, also the logic control to the IC when the power is applied to the cdi seems to switch, So I have ordered a new IC and I will post an update when its fitted. there only seems to be a couple of transistors between the IC and the main processor chip so thats where I will be looking if this doesn't fix it....

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by carlsburg » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:32 pm

:D :D :D Well it only works.......
The new IC arrived today so out came the soldering iron and the kips motor is alive...
So if you have a CDi and the kips part is not working, try and replace the IC mentioned above, you never know it might be the fix you need..

here is a link to where you can get one from.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STA434A-Trans ... 43b4f4f481

Note: it is a double sided printed circuit board so make sure you solder the top side as well as the bottom.

To get the cdi unit apart I used a junior hacksaw along the length of the circuit board on 3 sides, just break through and pry it oped. if there is lots of glue inside on the components the just use a heat gun to remove it, it is just hot melt glue.

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by JanBros » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:34 pm

=D> :D
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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by KR-1R » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:14 pm

slashing wrote:I had one go on one of my bikes (rectifier) it fried the rev counter an cdi. If it was me i would get a new one.
JanBros wrote:I'd advice to check your regulator/rectifier to make sure that one is ok.

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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by Professor » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:20 pm

It's good to have some electronic expertise on the forum! :idea:

There is a previous thread some where on the reg rec problems and the damage it can cause, check your temperature gauge and rev counter to see if they are working correctly as they are susceptible

I've used a reg rec from a newer Kawasaki ZX6R or the best quality / designed ones with the same connecter are supposed to be Yamaha like a trx850 etc. some people mount them externally so they don't get as hot, I've also fitted an over voltage warning LED on the dash

I've a similarly damaged CDI from a couple of years ago so I'll be looking into that soon :)

Thank you for sharing the info and photos
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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by Professor » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:50 pm

Is your cdi from a kr1?

My Kr1s cdi circuit is slightly different with a different IC which is a Toshiba 015k TA8051P this has twelve legs rather than ten but four of them are common

Very fiddly getting it unsoldered! and there is no sign of over heating or any other visual damage, I'm not qualified enough to test it

Martin
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Re: Another Kips problem....

Post by Professor » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:42 pm

Just ordered an original replacement but have to wait for it to arrive from china to try :roll:

Also available from USA but more expensive
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