KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

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pepsi
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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:47 pm

I see no shims behind the big bearing, number 92045-1130 , 6908C3 in any drawings , is that the one you are referring to?
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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:23 pm

pepsi wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:21 am
Gerrit wrote:Neither my Japanese nor my English manual has a cross-section drawing of the cutch gear and clutch assembly unfortunately, but I suspect that there may be a shim missing behind the clutch gear. The two 92022-1620 shims are 28.3 x 42 x 1.5 mm, the 92022-1607 is 28.3 x 36 x 1.4 mm accordig to the parts catalogues. I leave it to those with superior knowledge of the tandem engine to advise further.
thanks, very interesting, something to think about :|

I looked into the 92022 shims a little more, it seems they are located behind the main drive gear, as shown in the drawing highlighted by the red arrows, I need something front of the main gear between it and the clutch basket, see the blue circle, I think I'll machine a spacer to go there to hold the basket away to keep it from rubbing on the inner engine cover.

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I took the inner cover off ,the spacer I made did not help. I found 92022 and 490A missing on the #8 drawing . The 92022A's were there but I am not sure they are oem or somebodies bodge.Also the large bearing, #92045-1130 was not "home" , that caused the basket to touch the inner cover, I pressed it in.

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:13 pm

Gerrit wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:54 pm
Neither my Japanese nor my English manual has a cross-section drawing of the cutch gear and clutch assembly unfortunately, but I suspect that there may be a shim missing behind the clutch gear. The two 92022-1620 shims are 28.3 x 42 x 1.5 mm, the 92022-1607 is 28.3 x 36 x 1.4 mm accordig to the parts catalogues. I leave it to those with superior knowledge of the tandem engine to advise further.
Your were right :mrgreen: I'll machine up some shims tomorrow. I will try to match the clip #480A, 28MM ?, in a hardware store

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by Gerrit » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:43 pm

Bear in mind that the original shims are hardened steel. It might be best to order them from your friendly Kawasaki dealer, they may be common to other Kawasaki models. The circlip is probably a standard one, but I'm not sure whether US hardware stores will have metric circips so your friendly Kawasaki dealer may be your best bet.
By the way, there's a 13096-1075 clutch housing for sale on eBay in Australia if you still need a clutch housing. It's the part number for the A2 but should work on the A1.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142159609714? ... EBIDX%3AIT

One or more shims missing was the only logical explanation to me, so I won't be shot for a wrong diagnosis :mrgreen: . Anyway, you've found the cause and know what the solution is.
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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:20 am

The shims are not available it seems so I will machine some, they are not too thin so they should be OK. There shouldn't be a lot of thrust I would think. I guess I could make a science project out of it and try to harden them.

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by Gerrit » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:29 am

I've hardened custom-made steel parts (emergency repairs) so it can be done. Heat the part until cherry red, then quench in oil. The shims are rather thin though so they may warp a bit.
You might be able to find the shims on eBay or beg, steal or borrow them from a forum member who has a few spares lying around.
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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:47 pm

Gerrit wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:29 am
I've hardened custom-made steel parts (emergency repairs) so it can be done. Heat the part until cherry red, then quench in oil. The shims are rather thin though so they may warp a bit.
You might be able to find the shims on eBay or beg, steal or borrow them from a forum member who has a few spares lying around.
I can get these, I will grind the OD for the #92022 shim, and ID is a little off but they should work.

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:40 pm

Gerrit wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:43 pm
One or more shims missing was the only logical explanation to me, so I won't be shot for a wrong diagnosis :mrgreen: . Anyway, you've found the cause and know what the solution is.
the missing snap ring and shim could explain the dragging clutch because when trying to free the clutch plates by squeezing the lever the shaft was moving instead but the growling thing is still a mystery :|

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:33 pm

Gerrit wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:27 pm
According to my parts catalogue (purple cover) for the A2 92022-1573 is a shim on the output shaft. I don't have a KR250A but going by the parts catalogues I have, there should be a shim on the outside of the input ball bearing (92022-1620), then a circlip, another shim (92022-1620) followed by shim 92022-1607. Next comes a bush (92046-1122), the clutch gear slides over the bush. Next comes the clutch assembly. No sign of any seal whatsoever. I'll dig out my shop manual to see if I can find anything further.
Found what's left of shim 92022-1607 :shock: its the one that is located next to the needle bearing race in the clutch gear . I don't know what purpose it serves as it is thinner than the area next to the needle bearing race and the edge of the gear. I guess it is to keep the needle bearing from walking? No snap ring,# 480J2800 found

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:44 pm

Heres another clutch question, the clutch cover actuator spindle acts against a nice bearing assembly with a short shaft . It seems the short shaft would need a steel button of some sorts, it just seems like there is a part missing. There is no mention of it or nothing that shows in the parts drawings. Heres some photos.

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by Gerrit » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:31 pm

This looks very much like the KR1/KR1-S actuator arrangement and they don't have anything else there either, so I'd say you're OK in this respect. You're definitely NOT OK with the shims and circlip though.
Sure that that isn't what's left of the circlip? :shock:
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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:59 pm

Gerrit wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:31 pm
This looks very much like the KR1/KR1-S actuator arrangement and they don't have anything else there either, so I'd say you're OK in this respect. You're definitely NOT OK with the shims and circlip though.
Sure that that isn't what's left of the circlip? :shock:
its real hard to tell what it is, however I can get a measurement of the width and thickness and they correlate to what the shim should be. How it got that way is another mystery,

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by pepsi » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:39 pm

found the snap ring in the gasket pocket :shock: now the next question ,why did they become dislodged?

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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by Gerrit » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:37 pm

Yikes!!! :shock: One wonders whether that circlip was reused and overstressed- I always replace circlips after removing them. I consider it false economy to use them more than once.
All I can say is: be glad those bits didn't get jammed between the gears. If the bike were mine I'd give the engine a total teardown to ensure there was no further damage. It's a pain in the you-know-what, but better safe than sorry. And when she's rebuilt you know that everything's as it should be.
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Re: KR250 growly symptoms, maybe the clutch ?

Post by JanBros » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:17 am

you know a circlip has a direction ? it can be mounted the right way or the wrong way.
they are made by stamping and because of tha, they have e side with sharp edges and a side with rounded edges.
the sharp edge must always be placed to the outside (as in the side to which it might be pressed of. sometimes that's inside).
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