Is the ignition mod worth it?

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solomonheckler
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Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by solomonheckler » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:28 pm

I'm sure this has been covered many times before so I apologise if I'm repeating but I'm just about done with my C3 renovation with Jollymotos, just wondering if the Zeeltronic is worth the £s. I'm not gonna race it but would be nice to get the thing as good as I can without redoing the ports etc.

I have the dyno use for myself when I need, wanna get the bike right first.

Any tips, advice, maps etc, much appreciated.

Graham
KR1-S 250 (C3) 1991
CBR250RH Hurricane 1987
TZR125 4FL 1995

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by stevo135+ » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:07 am

I don't know about KR1S's specifically, but I've been told that a programmable ignition allows you to tune a given pipe to suit the engine better, and can improve performance before the power band and after peak power rpm? I'm using one on my lowely KMX 125, and my pipe builder told me it'd make a good difference to performance with everything else set up too. It's got to be more worthwhile on a bike like a KR1S's or RGV too!

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by mellorp » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:26 pm

Zeeltronic is well worth the pennies. Plug and play. Here you go with a decent KR-1S map

00:
01: PCDI-10VT <device ver>
02: 00 <boot ver>
03: 22.140108 <software ver>
04: 0000 <data ver>
05: 44.4 <static angle>
06: 12500 <rev limit>
07: 30 <delay comp>
08: 2 <pulse per rev>
09: 1 <ign setting nr>
0a: 13.5 23 25 26 18 15.5 7 9 9 9 <ign angle #1>
0b: 15 24.5 26 19 9 5.1 5.1 5.1 5.1 5.1 <ign angle #2>
0c: 1200 3000 7500 8000 10000 11000 13000 14000 15000 16000 <ign rev #1>
0d: 1500 3000 7500 10000 12000 12800 13000 14000 15000 16000 <ign rev #2>
0e: 7 5 <nr ign points>
0f: 12000 <shift light>
10: 500 <kill time>
11: 0 <ign sw>
12: 0 <advance>
13: 1 <pv setting nr>
14: 150 <pv close>
15: 915 <pv open>
16: 5 <pv deviation>
17: 1 <pv test>
18: 6 2 2 2 2 <nr pv points>
19: 0 20 40 60 80 100 100 100 <pv angle #1>
1a: 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 <pv angle #2>
1b: 0 25 40 100 100 100 100 100 <pv angle #3>
1c: 0 10 40 80 100 100 100 100 <pv angle #4>
1d: 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 <pv angle #5>
1e: 6900 7000 7300 7600 7800 8000 10000 10100 <pv rev #1>
1f: 7000 7100 8700 8800 8900 9000 9100 9200 <pv rev #2>
20: 7000 7200 7500 8600 8700 8800 8900 9000 <pv rev #3>
21: 6900 7000 6500 7500 8300 8400 8500 8600 <pv rev #4>
22: 7400 7500 8200 8300 8400 8500 8600 8700 <pv rev #5>
23: 2 <trigger Mode>
Last edited by mellorp on Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by Coose » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:45 pm

I wish you hadn't said that, Phil.... 8)

solomonheckler
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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by solomonheckler » Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:07 pm

So I dynoed the bike yesterday. I used the #1 settings for ignition and pv. I'm getting I dip in power as soon as the pv opens, no power after 10500, and it won't rev past 11000. I don't want to just try other settings before I understand what's going on. 54hp at the wheel.

Thanks

G
KR1-S 250 (C3) 1991
CBR250RH Hurricane 1987
TZR125 4FL 1995

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Binetta Steve
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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by Binetta Steve » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:48 pm

Calling Ben ludders

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by JanBros » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:16 pm

solomonheckler wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:07 pm
So I dynoed the bike yesterday. I used the #1 settings for ignition and pv. I'm getting I dip in power as soon as the pv opens, no power after 10500, and it won't rev past 11000. I don't want to just try other settings before I understand what's going on. 54hp at the wheel.

Thanks

G
are those rpm's the effectiv rpm"s or the one on your dashboard. the rpm-gauge is usualy rather optimistic.
and without knowing what mapping you've put in it for ignition vand powervalves, and what you've done to the engine, no one can give an opinion.
54 at the wheel is very good btw for a standard engine.
My ultimate goal is to die young as late as possible !

solomonheckler
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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by solomonheckler » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:12 am

Hi. RPMa are from the dyno measurement. But I will post a pic of the 4th, 5th and 6th gear curves, so you can see the dip. Mixture is spot on throughout, so hopefully a little advance and pv tweak will sort it.

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.

G
KR1-S 250 (C3) 1991
CBR250RH Hurricane 1987
TZR125 4FL 1995

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by mellorp » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:33 am

The easy way to sort the KIPS opening position is do at least 2 runs

1st run KIPS fully closed - You will see power drop off at the top of the rev range
2nd run KIPS fully open - You will see power increase at the top of the rev range

That tells you the point at which point KIPS closed is efficient also when KIPS open is efficient

You can repeat with 25% open, 50% open, 75% open.

Those runs will then give you the information you need on when and how much to open the KIPS valves at various points in the rev range

The zeeltronic interpolates between trigger points. As an example using just 2 trigger points of KIPS closed at 0 RPM and full open at 1,000 RPM would mean KIPS 25% open at 250 RPM without using a 3rd trigger point. It allows gradual opening of the KIPS. You can use a different method e.g. Fully closed at 999 RPM and fully open at 1,000 RPM would mean the KIPS valves opening fully in one quick movement.

As for ignition advance, most 2T engines respond to the "classic" curve of starting at around 15° to 20° rising quickly to 26° to 28° at about 6,000 RPM then dropping back to around 11° at 12,000 ish RPM then as low as 4° after that to stop it destroying itself

Hope that helps

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by 500bernie » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:30 am

Excellent bit of technical help there Phil 8)

I had mine set up on the dyno by Mick Abbey, he put in a few more points to meet the engines requirements at certain revs and altered the PV settings.

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by Gerrit » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:00 pm

I thought the KIPS servo only had two possible positions, fully open or fully shut, no intermediate positions?
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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by JanBros » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:09 am

Gerrit wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:00 pm
I thought the KIPS servo only had two possible positions, fully open or fully shut, no intermediate positions?
yes, and there is no point in "slowing down the opening time" as all in-between positions are to be avoided. KIPS is no an exhaust timing valve.
My ultimate goal is to die young as late as possible !

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Re: Is the ignition mod worth it?

Post by mellorp » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:51 am

The 2nd part of my explanation was of how the zeeltronic works rather than a recommendation on opening the KIPS valve (1st part)

Where a PV is used you can open it as much as you want, but as with the RG the exhaust valve /KIPS should be either open or closed

The PCDI -10VT is also used on ignitions with PV motors so if you don't program it properly the KIPS can be partially opened which is not a good idea.

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