21st century tuners - who's left?

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scooble
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21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by scooble » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:54 pm

two stroke tuning was always a bit of a black art and todays strokers are getting abit long in the tooth, along with the tuners who've either retired or passed away.
So, who's left and is also still willing to tune strokers in the 21st century?

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by 500bernie » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:14 pm

Hi Tricia
Mick Abbey is still doing some great work he always gets a 10/10 from me =D> =D> =D>
Cheers
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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by stevo135+ » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:34 pm

It's an interesting question and one worth considering, as two strokes along with carbs are getting ever more specialist and so are the places that will work on them.

Adding to the above, I know BDK racing are still going, and have done a top end recondition and tune for one of my engines. They are still from what I hear and read very into their two strokes and not only are enthusiastic about them, but have committed to invest in re designing and really producing parts for them which is to be applauded, as not many firms would want the cost/return ratio of investing in re-producing 2stroke parts for the small classic stroker enthusiast market.

There's still enough people who would tune and re-build engines out there in my opinion, but it's the custom pipe business that's the worrying issue to me.

There's only a few people/firms out their who can design and build really good performing pipes for non standard bikes or hybrid machines etc. They are all in high demand with very long lead times for custom work, and that's if they are interested in something rare or not common or lucrative in the first place. Getting good pipes made will be the hardest thing in the UK for 2strokes, and wait times will get longer as time goes by.

It worries me, as from what I read it's far from a simple case of you or I being able to go out and buy a software program that we can type our specs into, and it will spit out the ideal pipe dimensions for our machine.

Diy pipes for those that have the necessary fabrication and sheet metal working/welding skills is therefore still not a doable option, as getting hold of a set of ideal really well optimised dimensions to follow is the hardest bit, and no one these days really has the time to spend building a pipe that they aren't 90% sure will work as expected.

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by Luders » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:29 am

I could always back to back my pipes on a dyno and it is one of the things we were considering doing with my next dyno time.

I did it once but don't remember where the results are.

I'm also happy to lend them to try on anyone (in general) who wants to dyno their bike at RTR in Bingham.

I know that's a long way for you Tricia, but I would come down and give you a hand if you want.

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by scooble » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:30 am

Thanks Ben for the offer, but I am of the opinion that its the cylinders thats holding it back more than anything else.
When I borrowed MJ's complete engine and JL pipes, I found that it produced good power right up to 12k, but was a bit peaky.
When I put Bob's top end on (same bottom and and pipes), the powerband kicked in sooner, but it was running out of puff by 10.5k and was all over at 11k with no over rev at all.
This same characteristic is the same with standard S pipes, Nikons and the Micron GP's.
Standard KR1S cylinders and S pipes saw 50.5hp on the Dyno and with Bob's top end I saw 52hp.
I've been running the twin EGT and single AFR setup this year, and the bike seems to run crisp and responsive at around 12.8 to 13.1 AFR with exhaust temps at around 550 Deg C with the Zeeltronic map 1.
Round short and twisty circuits like Brands Indy, Bob's cylinders are ok, but anywhere else like Snetterton, Silverstone or Brands GP it has a hard time keeping up with TZR's.

I've heard good things about Graham File, but cant seem to get hold of him. The number I'm using is 01303 262222, is this correct?
If I cant get hold of Graham, I might have a word with Mick Abbey or possibly even Pete O'Dell

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by Luders » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:10 pm

Have you tried changing the ignition? I got a crap load of over rev by the changes we made the other month. I sent you the ignition map didn't I?

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by Rocket » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:21 pm

Yes, that's Graham File's number, or was last time I spoke to him, been a while now though.

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by Gerrit » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:01 am

What carbs are you running- standard-bore PWK 28s, bored 28s, PWK 35s........?
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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by maccas » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:27 am

100% the ignition curve that needs work. My bike is exactly the same, doesn't want to rev. I changed the ignition curve slightly and it revved 500 rpm further straight away. Needs to go on the dyno to be done better though.

Dan

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by scooble » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:30 pm

I ran the PWK35's with MJ's top end and it made good power with 150 mains. When I used my top end, it needed to run 142.5's.
The sequence of ignitions I tried was KR1, KR1S and Zeeltronic map 1. Each ignition is slightly more advanced than the last, however, I perceived no difference with the engine revving out.
Its conceivable that the engine would respond better to retard than advance and that everything I have tried so far is way off the optimal setting.
James at Crazy Cat said he could help out, so I might take him up on the offer and see how much I can optimise the current tune with ignition and carburation

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by TwoStroke Institute » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:28 pm

scooble wrote:two stroke tuning was always a bit of a black art and todays strokers are getting abit long in the tooth, along with the tuners who've either retired or passed away.
So, who's left and is also still willing to tune strokers in the 21st century?
Honestly with decent ignitions they actually do the work for you. A few things I see are your EGT is 50deg to low or 1 jet to rich. If the the ignition isn't extending your over rev the pipe is to long. 5 or 10mm from the start of the header will raise the peak rpm.

Here something what water temp does the engine run at over 55deg your loosing power. Are you still running the standard flywheel and stator? Also the standard 0.82:1 top gear is too long and needs to be closer to 5th
crochet & croquet

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by scooble » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:03 pm

I tried running the big rad without the thermostat and it over cooled the engine and couldn't get it above 48Deg C. After putting a standard thermostat in, it runs consistently at about 60 Deg C.

If anyone has some port map ideas, can they send them to me as I'll probably get another set of cylinders tuned.
Last edited by scooble on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by JanBros » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 pm

post your port maps here, maybe someone spot's a problem with them, or maybe there is nothing wrong with them and there is no need for another set of cylinders :wink:
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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by maccas » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:12 pm

It's definitely worth trying changing the ignition curve before worrying about porting.

Try 12-14 degrees at 10k going down to 0 degrees at 12k.

Dan

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Re: 21st century tuners - who's left?

Post by podman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:47 pm

scooble wrote:I ran the PWK35's with MJ's top end and it made good power with 150 mains. When I used my top end, it needed to run 142.5's.
The sequence of ignitions I tried was KR1, KR1S and Zeeltronic map 1. Each ignition is slightly more advanced than the last, however, I perceived no difference with the engine revving out.
Its conceivable that the engine would respond better to retard than advance and that everything I have tried so far is way off the optimal setting.
James at Crazy Cat said he could help out, so I might take him up on the offer and see how much I can optimise the current tune with ignition and carburation
Be interested to see how you get on at James dyno, both my KR1 and mikes KR1R have been at James , he knows his stuff.

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