Following on from...

Show us that box of bits in your shed!
Post Reply
Red Devil 777
Premix Junkie
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: 36 miles from mecca

Post by Red Devil 777 »

I've had a load for this one done by Collins Chemical Blacking, cos I wanted them, erm, black :lol: If you wanted them just in a zinc passitive I'd also recommend Simms of Halifax. Then again you can replace quite a few non specific bolts with stainless (engine casings etc). Disc bolts are available in Ti and Stainless from Pro-bolt. And you can by new ones from Kwak for some things. But yeah you're right shite bolts doesn't half spoil the job :lol: Anyway if you can stick a shock in you can take one of these apart and put it back together, no excuses now :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
duncanoakes
Smoker
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:55 pm
Location: Thirsk, North Yorkshire

Post by duncanoakes »

and one last thing,

the cost of doing the bolts typically?
Red Devil 777
Premix Junkie
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: 36 miles from mecca

Post by Red Devil 777 »

Pretty cheap if you just get them zinc plated at Simms, the pile that I had done for this in black (shown in a pic somewhere on this thread) about £60 inc vat and return post.

Disc bolts in Ti about £6 each, engine bolt set in stainless, I did some sets on here, think they were about £6 for 59 bolts or something like that, not dear any way.
KR-1R
Premix Junkie
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 2:24 am

Radial brakes - Radial Caliper Selection

Post by KR-1R »

Image
Red Devil 777

"Front end has had a bit of work, done the leg bottoms black to match the gixxer calipers, looks better than having, gold tubes, brown fork bottoms and black calipers. Just mocked this pic up cos I've lent BarryJ the bushes etc so he can see about fitting a zxr wheel into his rgv, well I suppose you have to let them use some quality kwak parts on their Suzukis, Sean's always fond of reminding us that we use the occasional rgv part

Also got a good set of kr1 discs from Gary(e345), so using them instead of the prolite(s) (mucho cheaper ) but centres black rather than gold.
Totally inspired by your mods - and did some catch up on bike specs for the last few years regarding brakes etc.

it would seem for the last 3 years (except for the ZX-6R) the 600s, 750s, and 1000s have gone to 310mm disks
Image
...DEEPER/THICKER MOUNTINGS
you'll see the 310mm disks differ in the caliper at the mount points being 5mm longer extending the caliper out on the radius

Image
the 2004 and 2005 model Suzukis (k4 and k5) 600's and 750's had 300mm disks NOTE the thinner 'knuckle' of the mount

some 04 ZX6R forks and calipers...
Image
...so KR-1S 300mm disks should work on anything donated from ZX-6?
maybe the boss/fingers on the fork leg are longer on some years?

source:Bike Specs link...
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Suzuki_GSX-R_600_2005.aspx

Caliper selection...
ZX-6R... 280mm '04 <> 300mm '05, '06, '07, '08
ZX-10R... 300mm '04, '05, '06?, '07 <> 310mm '08
CBR-600RR... 310mm '04, '05, '06, '07, '08
GSX-R600... 300mm '04, '05 <> 310mm '06, '07, '08
GSX-R750... 300mm '04, '05 <> 310mm '06, '07, '08
GSX-R1000.. 300mm '04, '05 <> 310mm '06, '07, '08
YZF-R6... 298mm '04 <> 310mm '05, '06, '07, '08
YZF-R1... 320mm '04, '05, '06 <> 310mm '07, '08
the majority of these are TOKICO
The Yamaha differs by continuing with their monoblock style (star shaped piston covers) and I see on the new '08 ZX-6R, Kawakaski has gone to NISSIN which has scalloped out like fins.

all this means means theres plenty of choice of donor bike models out there for fork/brake combinations - but the 600's are probably the best choice without needing to the lighten the internal springing by being too stiff to begin with

Semi remote Compression adjustment gizmo on the R6...Image
...the axle clamp diameters might be different to the ZX, and Gixers - to confirm
I assume all the the radial varieties use the same mounting spacing of ?110mm?
Not sure what the disk bolt PCD's will be for interbreeding (what carriers are compatible with which wheels)

Seeing how ubiquitous these calipers are now I'm sure we'll be following RedDevil in his search for the ultimate front end.

.
.
.
User avatar
JanBros
Avgas Sniffer
Posts: 3306
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: the land of Francorchamps

Post by JanBros »

all those radial calipers (appart from Brembo-models like Ducati an Aprillia) use the same type off mountings, so if they are Nissin's/Tokico's/Yamaha-not the sixpots), so it doesn't matter which ones you buy, just get the cheapest ones.

disc sizes don't matter, you can choose whatever disc you like and get spacers made :wink:

on the Beringer website : you'll find that all the bikes that use the 4R11A and 4R01A (left and right) calipers, so any of those are interchangeble :arrow: http://www.beringer.fr/cat/caten.pdf
My ultimate goal is to die young as late as possible !
Red Devil 777
Premix Junkie
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: 36 miles from mecca

Post by Red Devil 777 »

Been busy modding the airbox, as usual it's one step forward and two back, altered shock mount equals less space, so nicked the battery area for an airbox extension, might get altered at the front yet as well.

Mucho plastic welding, dremmeling and sanding plus std airbox, abs drainpipe, guttering and plasticard, copious amouns of assorted adhesives and other chemicals results in this, not quite finished yet still needs rubbing down properly and spraying with bumper paint, but hopefully you get the gist. Been made to allow an r6 shock as well as a kr one. Did try a cbr 600 rr shock but that's another story :lol:

Image
mgtkr1
Premix Junkie
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:04 pm

Post by mgtkr1 »

very proffesional looking finish mate, will be looking forward to more news.
sickboy
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:02 pm

Post by sickboy »

Awesome mate, just the inspiration i needed to get my project going.. =D>
Everybody is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privledge.
User avatar
smithyrc30
Heavy Smoker
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:49 am
Location: Torquay, Victoria, Australia

h***a single sided swingers

Post by smithyrc30 »

Hi just been reading through this most excellent piece of work...

I don't want to come across all negative, but how exactly did you make the h***a arm fit in the frame?

If I read this correctly, you chopped off one of the radial bealings on the RHS of the arm?

The NC30 arm is constructed differently with regard to its bearings than the KR.

On the NC there is a big bolt on the RHS of the bike which tensions the bearing assemblies on the RHS. That is why there are two roller bearings, so that the axial play can be reacted. The other end is just a needle roller bearing which floats on a spacer.
The swing arm pivot fits through all this to hold it in the frame.

If you take one of the radial bearings away then the end result will be that the swing arm is free to float along the pivot due to the clearances in the bearing, with the consequent effect on the handling. The old much laughed at "Kawasaki Hinge Frames" of the seventies will be nothing on that....

If you look at this link:

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Mod ... p/SWINGARM

you can see what I mean. (it is for the RC30, but the arm design is the same)

Another point to consider is the suspension linkage, the way the SS arm is designed requires some fancy ratios, so the rear spring and the length are pretty unique. Most modern sports biks have 7~9kg/mm springs. The h***a SS arm uses 15~19kg/mm springs, depending on model. Point is you can't use the KR links, it will over stroke the shock. The other thing to bear in mind is the set up is quite ride height sensitive. Brillant once you have it dialled in, but you do need adjustment. As you are build ing the upper mount from scratch, I suggest putting in an adjuster to get the ride height set. Using the NC35 top mount and a flat mount with shims would be good but fiddly to set, or you could use two nuts like the RC45. Getting NC30 shocks with ride height adjustment is expensive, and you can engineer it in now much more inexpensively.

S/s arms are great to look at, but a RPIA for part interchangability.

Early Ducati rear wheels take a good bit of modification to fit to NC/RC back ends. The hole in the centre is the wrong diameter (Too small), and the offset is incorrect. Aside from that they are soft as anything and buckle very easily.... So if you bend one (and you will) you have to modify another one....

Later Ducati wheels have similar issues, but the hole is too big this time...

Oh and the wheel mounting face is not the centre of the wheel, there is an offset of between 5 and 20mm, depending on the arm, the wheel etc...

Ducati hubs dont fit into h***a arms. Heck even h***a arms are all different. Where the rear hub fits the NC30 is 60mm across, RC30 is 65mm across, RC45 is 70mm across, VFR750 is 65mm across but with 4 bolt wheel ILO of centre fixing and adds a cush drive system. The NC24 is different, NSR150 is different again, the MC28 twists, VFR800 bolts through the engine cases, RS250 is the wrong way up.....

Also the NC30/NC35 arm has no cush drive, unlike the KR, so expect the gear changes to be, well, worse....

You can buy 17" wheels for the NC arm, h***a made them for the NC35 and the MC28, so if you are truely lucky, you might get a magnesium one from an MC28. Alternatively DK spares sell the Chinese knock off copy (Delkevic) for about 300quid. Quality control is a bit variable though....

All the NC/MC series arm wheels are 4.5" wide. Most if not all of the 3 spoke wheels are 5.5" or larger. I'm not saying there aren't any 4.5" out there, but they are not common.

Triumph S/Siders are, well, Triumph copies of the Elf original, so bugger all fits with them.....

Never even considered the AF1 arm, it was bad enough in the original bike, so add more weight and power.... The only thing it is good for is melting down.

The other thing is the spacers you have in the front wheel spindle.

Jan is correct, the wheel spindle is no longer clamped by the fork legs and so it is now free to float wherever it wants to. Tip it into a corner and the fork legs will move in the bushes to take up the clearance and then the spindle will follow.... Along with the wheel and all your front end grip.....

If you can push it together by hand, there is clearance, and similarly if you can push it together by hand, imagine what 200kg of bike plus rider can do to it....

It would be a shame to ruin all the hard work with a low side on the first outing.

In my youth I had an AR125, I stripped and rebuilt the forks, put the whole lot back together, had a coffee, went out and crashed at the first bend.... I had not torqued up the front wheel spindle.... Trashed the forks, the fairing, the brake levers etc. etc....... Funny thing was, I tipped it in and thought, 'I expected them to be better than this'.... Lesson learned....

Sorry if this all sounds negative, but I have been there before.

Looking forward to seeing it finished.

Cheers
User avatar
scooble
Premix Junkie
Posts: 1549
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:47 pm
Location: West Sussex
Contact:

Post by scooble »

any more progress on this most excellent project?
Post Reply